The British state spied on Tariq Ali from 1965 until the Iraq war in 2003 (Photo: Gary Knight)
You were spied on from 1965 to the Iraq War. Why were you such a threat?
That’s how MI5 operated. In 1965, my crime was to be part of a group who were pelting the South African’s ambassador’s car with vegetables and chanted anti-apartheid slogans.
Attacking apartheid South Africa was as difficult as attacking apartheid Israel is today. Apartheid South Africa was backed by governments and most newspapers.
There were Tory government ministers and some right wing Labour MPs, who denounced Nelson Mandela as a terrorist.
In the 1980s you turned to more cultural forms of resistance, with the TV programme Bandung File. What lay behind that?
I had left the International Marxist Group in 1981. I was non-aligned but my politics didn’t change much. Darcus Howe and I were offered the chance to set up a production company to reflect South Asian and Afro-Caribbean people.
We interviewed black and Asian workers on strike and we prioritised voices from below. Other TV companies could have done this, but they chose not to.
This kind of programme making doesn’t exist now. When I show clips to media students, the first question I get asked is, “Was this shown on TV?”—no one can believe it.
You were in Moscow in 1990 with the Royal Shakespeare Company. How did that come about?
I wrote accounts of meeting Russian intellectuals in the 1980s. Then I co-wrote a play, Moscow Gold, with Howard Breton. We took the play to Moscow in 1990. We were in a huge children’s theatre in Moscow.
It was packed out. It was a weird feeling, performing a play set in Moscow—in Moscow. The reform movement was strong. It was probably the freest the Soviet Union had been in terms of political debates since February 1917.
There was this huge space for discussions about the future Russia, with huge numbers of people questioning everything, The Russian papers were not censored anymore, they began to print letters from working people saying this is what we want, these are our needs.
It was incredible and was not really reported in the West.
Was the Stop The War Coalition another high point of your campaigning?
The Stop The War Coalition (STWC) was set up after 9/11 when the US and Nato invaded Afghanistan. We organised a meeting to denounce the new occupation. We staged huge demonstrations against the Iraq War.
Just short of two million people marched in our “pre-emptive strike” against the war. The size of our movement sent shock waves through the Labour Party.
The cabinet was shaken, some ministers were saying we shouldn’t go in. Foreign secretary Robin Cook resigned and some 70 MPs rebelled against the vote for war.
The thing to remember was the movement wasn’t just in London. Some three million marched in Madrid and two million plus marched in Rome. The STWC was a big achievement for the left and it still exists, thank god, to carry on the movement against the genocide in Gaza.
The anti-war movement was an alternative to officialdom and to both parties. It encouraged people to stop depending on the mainstream media—which is now completely intolerable.
The media tell lies about Gaza and lies about what happened in Amsterdam—complete and utter lies.
You write about ‘Gaza—a disgrace to the world’ but the article was written ten years ago!
I put that chapter in deliberately, to show people, including people on our side, that it did not all start on 7 October 2023. That is utter nonsense.
I was drawn to the chapter, The Case Against Tony Blair. Why is he still so hated?
In 2003 I went to give a lecture in Damascus and was invited for lunch at the British Embassy.
The ambassador said, “Tariq, this is not a free lunch, we are going to pick your brains. In the Guardian, you said Blair was a ‘war criminal who should be charged’.” I explained my case and the ambassador said, “Well I must say that’s very convincing argument—anyone else?” Everyone else stayed silent.
You turned 80 while you were writing this volume. How do you keep fighting?
You have to speak out aloud, and never fall silent, however difficult it is. If you are opposed to something, you have to be active, go into the streets.
If horrific things are happening, you have to stand up. I know lots of people are opposed to the criminal war on Palestine. Opinion polls show between 60 and 70 percent of the population want a ceasefire. If they all came out, governments would fall.
Your children will ask you if you opposed the genocide. People should be able to say “yes”—and we went on demonstrations and we occupied factories making arms for Israel.
I am not as optimistic as I was 40 years ago—but the world has to be changed because otherwise it will destroy itself.
The big problem is the US and both political parties there. They’ve had a zombie as president for the last few years and now they have Donald Trump, who is completely unpredictable.
The new head of the CIA has talked about targeting Iran. This could lead to a nuclear confrontation. Politicians have the nerve to lecture people in the Global South about civilisation but no-one will listen to them now.
To change things, we need to create movements and organisations that encourage people to reject all official politicians. They have all failed.
- You Can’t Please All—Memoirs 1980-2024, Tariq Ali, Verso, £15 ebook
- Tariq Ali at Bookmarks on his new memoir, Fri 22 Nov, 6.30pm at Bookmarks bookshop, WC1B 3QE
